Can You Help? Update 28/4/05: Milking Bank graveyard, Fiddlers Arms history, Himley fire, Red Cow mining

Can You Help Email Us Here The purpose of this page is to allow visitors to post any questions regarding local history and tradition, in the hope, nay, expectation, that other readers can supply a full or partial answer, or maybe just throw in a related question of their own.

Can you help Tracy? 28/4/05 Question: I have recently seen on a search that there used to be a graveyard on the Milking Bank Estate in Dudley, I would be very interested to find out more about this. i.e. as this was a graveyard was there a church close by. I also heard that this graveyard was there from 1887 till 1955. Can you help? Email Us Help from Martin 28/4/05: As mentioned in another Can You Help response further down this page, the area around the Red Cow pub was known as Graveyard. This is said to have been due to the early existence of a Quaker cemetary. The 1901 Gornal & Wren's Nest map (ref 67.11) on sale at www.blackcountryshop.co.uk clearly shows the Graveyard area and marks Grosvenor Road as Graveyard Road. However, the Milking Bank Estate itself was built a few yards east of this, on reclaimed coal and fireclay mining land. I would have thought therefore that your graveyard connection relates to the Grosvenor Road area just next door to Milking Bank. But other Yampy readers may correct me on this? By the way, the old local land engineering firm of Johnson, Poole and Bloomer were involved in the reclamation of the Milking Bank land, and there is an interesting company history pdf file on their web site at www.jpb.co.uk that has a short section about the Milking Bank project. I wonder if someone at that company could help you further with your enquiries?

Can you help Chris? 8/4/05 Question: I've been trying to find out about the the old underground fire that used to be down near the edge of Himley golf course, just above the watercress beds, all now in Baggeridge country park - does anyone remember it, when and how it started, and how it was put out etc? If anyone has any info I'd be more than grateful as I have great memories of playing on what was probably an incredibly dangerous place... Chris Walker - born Lower Gornal, 1967, now living in Cardiff Can you help? Email Us Help from Gwyneth 26/4/05: Yes I remember the underground fire. We used to dig down with sticks till we could see the red-hot ashes. Nothing ever grew on the top of it. It was just above the cress beds. When Baggeridge was 'developed' it seemed to disappear then - not sure of date - more than 10 years ago? Probably longer! Gwyneth Harris (Powell) Help from Martin 9/5/05: See the Yampy History page for Colin Prosser's memories of this.

Can you help Mick? Question: I live in the cottage next door to the Fiddlers Arms on Straits Road, No 14. I am aware that the Fiddlers used to be a farm and I think my cottage used to be something to do with the original farm. I would like to find out any local history about my house, the age, etc. I believe it to date to the mid to early 1800's, along with the other similar cottage No 12 which lies at the rear of mine. Can you help please? Mick Williams. Can you help? Email Us Help from Nic: It was last kept as a farm by Paul Russell (baptised Himley 8 May 1796), who was born into a family that had farmed at High Arcal (Himley) for many generations. Paul Russell farmed on Straits Rd until, some time after 1835, his land was used for building. The farm had certainly become the Fiddler's Arms by 1859, the year when Mercy, the daughter of Josiah Fisher the first landlord, was born. Perhaps not entirely coincidentally, Josiah Fisher was the husband of Paul Russell's son-in-law's sister. Hope this is helpful. Help from Kate & Mark 26/4/05: My husband and I have just had our offer accepted on no 97 The Straits, and have looked into the history behind it. We believe it to have been built in 1840, informed by the current owner, so roughly the same period as your cottage. We too, are finding it difficult to find things out about the history of the property, but have enjoyed looking at an Old Ordnance Survey map of Gornalwood & himley Coalfields 1901(Stafforshire sheet 67.10), which can be purchased at www.blackcountryshop.co.uk. The Fiddlers Arms is on the map as a PH, and is mentioned in the text on the reverse of the map regarding the coal being at surface level at that point. The text also describes the building materials and methods of construction used to build many cottages in the area at that time, so you might find it interesting reading. Unfortunately, our research does not date back any further, but if you do manage to find out anything else, we would be interested to know.

Can you help Mark? Question: Has anyone got any photos of the open cast mining which took place by the Red Cow pub in Gornal, or any info will be appreciated. thanks Mark Can you help? Email Us Help from Kate & Mark (26/4/05): I recently purchased a book from www.blackcountryshop.co.uk titled Sedgley & District, a fifth selection by Trevor Genge, and there is a picture of 'The Cuba Pit', Lower Gornal and its colliers on page 80. I'm not sure if this helps you at all, but the rest of the book makes for interesting reading too.

Can you help Jane? Question: I'm sure there used to be donkey races in gornal. I seem to remember a large green patch of land and a bank we sat on, maybe by a pub near to where the new vet's surgery is - or it could have been a football ground. Perhaps it was a carnival or fete attraction - I was very young! I would like to know if anyone else has similar memories, or can tell me more. Can you help? Email Us Help from Stephen (14/12/04): hi jane, yes i remember the donkey races. they used to take place at Gornal Atheletic football ground, i presume as part of the carnival. the embankment to which you refer was actually the 'terraces'. I wonder if anyone remembers 'walter' the football coach/trainer. If anyone got injured and he thought they were 'swinging the lead' he used to throw his bucket of water over them....bless him Help from Tony (19/1/05): My Name is Tony Warby, from Pakenham Australia. I remember the donkey races. They were held on a soccer ground above the athletic grounds. The ground used to be used by Robert Street junior school for sports days. Between the soccer ground and the athletic ground there was a walkway which used to come out onto a paddock. This was used as a direct route to the Red Cow up the graveyard. I think the pub you remember is the Fountain which was directly opposite the entrance gates. Did you know Gornal has its own flag? A lop eared donkey on a white background - so I was told when I was a youngster. Can you remember the donkey outside the butchers at the top of the meadow?

Can you help Steve? 13/1/05 Question: I am looking for any pictures/history of the straits house pub.The pub is up for "review" in june & is apparently going to be knocked down for housing.If anyone knows anything past or present about the pub & is future please let me know. Can you help? Email Us

Can you help David? 26/10/04 Question: I wonder if anyone in the Gornals today has any info, regarding a haulage contractor - certainly around in the 1960`s - called L.WOOLDRIDGE. My last address of him was Burton Road. Even better if any photos of his lorries exist or any info such as what goods carried to where etc. I remember seeing his lorries over in Norfolk in the early 1960`s and am curious to know a little about the firm Can you help? Email Us Help from Bryan (23/11/04): In the 1960's I was employed by Woolridge Transport, (the owner Len Woolridge a jolly corpulent man, at that time lived at Oakham) the garage was by the Red Cow, in Grosvenor Road. The colour of the lorries were a dark red with cream lettering, I dont remember ever doing a trip to Norfolk, but I can remember being contracted out to Round Oak Motors, Brierley Hill, and load steel from Round Oak Steel Works, and Richard Thomas & Baldwins, to be delivered to small engineering firms in the London area, and to Liverpool Docks. I hope this info is of some use.

Can you help Jason? Question: I live in an Edwardian House which is situated in Fairview Road, Dudley, DY1, which is in a row of six houses, of which are all the same. I have been told these houses were used by a local hospital (which is no longer) as Arms Houses many years ago, if possible I would like to locate information on this & even better some old photo's of the aforementioned houses dating back to Edwardian times. Can you help? Email Us

Can you help Paul? 26/5/04 Question: I'm interested in the history of a chimney stack situated on Coopers bank at the rear of Seagar Technology. Can you help? Email Us

Can you help Jan? Question: I do enjoy your web site. The old photographs and the history are fascinating. I'd like to know, if you or someone could find out, why Himley Road between the Five Ways and the traffic lights at Himley isn't a bus route (except on Bonfire Night of course). Was it ever? It's not important but it's puzzled me for years. Can you help? Email Us

Can you help Sally? When walking down Ruiton Street towards Five Ways, I'm always curious about the building (now a house?) at the rear of the Miners Arms Pub on the corner of Sandstone Close. It is aligned at a different angle to all of the other buildings in the vicinity and appears to have had major alterations i.e a large section of the building has been chopped off at some stage, just leaving the line of the original roof. Question: Could anyone tell me what the building was originally and does anyone have any photographs? I would be fascinated to find out more. Can you help? Email Us Help from Amanda: My father is 84 years old and has spent the best part of his life in and around Gornal. If his memory serves him well, at the side of the Miners pub was a house and he remembers the family Pugh living there. At the side of the house was a row of three cottages, which led into a Fold. These were demolished in the 1960s, I think. The row of three cottages were down in a dip and had railings in front, which may explain the strange shape of the Miner's now that they have been removed but there was definitely a house attached to it at some point. Hope this helps. Amanda Help from Paul and Sam: Having read the letter from Sally, we were amazed that someone was writing in asking about the house we live in! We bought the house in 1999 and have been renovating it ever since. What we have found out is the original structure was built in the 1700's (the gable end you see from the road) and there have been bits added on and pulled down in the last 300 years. What you cannot see from the road is that in fact the house is the wrong way round and is a twin double bay windowed fronted house with canopy above. These were added in the early 1930's, we know this for two reasons, one, when we bought the property we applied for grading or listings and two, we retained the original leads and the design helped us establish the year of manufacture. Back to the gable end, when we stripped it last year, we found out by the stones used, that it is in fact an internal wall, we found a door way, approximately half way up, and the buttresses you see are what remains of the two side walls. We have been told that there was once a blacksmiths shop there and also a stream that is now piped runs at the bottom of the garden. We believe that the three cottages you spoke about are now the bungalows that run to the left of our back garden, which was also the entrance to the fold. As far as we can tell, there are two more property's that face into what was once the fold, and these are the two semi-detached houses up Robert Street. We would also be very interested if anyone could provide us with any information or photographs as we are currently putting together an album of our own with photo's of all the work that has been carried out and would be interested to see how much the property has changed. Thank you to anyone who can provide us with any information, and if you would like to get in touch, please contact Paul and Sam on pcouchpotato@aol.com.

Can you help Dennis? Question: My grandfather Benjamin Job FLAVELL born Walsall, (his father Job FLAVELL from Sedgley Parish) used the term Hobbin-Foot when referring to what I now know is a 'Boot or Shoe Last' for repairing boots . Is this term "Hobbin-Foot" a term originally from Gornal / Sedgley or from some other part of the country ie. South Yorkshire or North Derbyshire . I've spelled "Hobbin Foot" as pronounced . Dennis FLAVELL www.flavell.co.uk Can you help? Email Us

Can you help Chris? Question: My mum would like to ask if any of your regulars know why, when she lived up there years ago, many of the old Gornal folk referred to Grosvenor Road as 'the Graveyard'. Can you help? Email Us Answer: Please see our Street Names page.

Can you help John? Question: I would love to find details, photographs or drawings of Yew Tree Cottage which used to be in Catholic Lane. Any ideas where I could seek information? Can you help? Email Us

Can you help Alan? Question: I’m trying to find the ode “The Black Country Nativity” on the Internet. It is basically the story of the birth of Christ told in Black Country dialect. I’ve heard it once and I fell about laughing and I’d dearly love a written copy. Hope you can help. Alan Lawrence Help from Martin: Thanks to Keith Poole for sending us a strong candidate, which we have put on our Fun & Laughs humour page. We've also started selling the Black Country Society's 'Bible in Black Country Dialect' series at our Black Coountry Shop. Can you help? Email Us

Can you help Dave? Question: I am trying to track down a picture of the infamous pig on the wall (not the pub). Do you have any ideas where I could get a copy? Can you help? Email Us Help from Martin: Ian Beach's interesting Ancient Manor of Sedgley site has a page with the original picture on it, here's the link: www.sedgleymanor.com/pig_on_the_wall.html See also our page investigating the origin of the picture, click here.

Can you help Lesley? Question: On Musk Lane Industrial Estate to the left, there is a very old building which runs the back of my house. It was recently used as a shop-fitting workshop/ window fitting workshop. Do you know what this building was originally? Can you help? Email Us Help from Nigel: All of this industrial estate was at one time the gas works. Apparently they made coal gas. Some of the buildings have been knocked down and others have found other uses, ie. the shop-fitting workshop / window fitting workshop. Also on the Bird Street side of the estate you can see the remains of the old gas tank, knocked down around 10 years ago and now just a derelict plot.

Can you help Patricia? Question: Hello, I am Pat(ricia) Haughton Wright in Canada I was born 75 yrs ago in Willenhall. At age 5 along with my sister I started school in Sedgley. I have very few memories, but it seemed to me that we lived in a new house which backed onto the Beacon where we kids played. To go to school we turned right and walked up the street past some shops. I do recall that one of these was a Greengrocers shop because some bright spark dared me to steal an apple, which I did - and the whole display of them came tumbling down, at which we ran like the devil was after us home! I have often wondered what the name of that street and school was, I am sure it no longer exists but if there are any old Photos of it or a name, I would love it if someone can tell me. My Haughtons & Wrights were in Sedgley in the 1600s but of course I didn't discover that until I began to do my family History, long after we had left there. Can you help? Email Us Help from Martin: I was born backing on to the Beacon too, though it was later in 1961. The Beacon is rather big and you could have been on any side of it, but my guess would be that the street was Bilston Street and the school was Queen Victoria Primary. If so, it's still there now more or less unchanged, so I'll take a photo and send it to you.

Can you help Dennis? Question: My grandfather, Benjamin Job FLAVELL, working down the pit at Hickleton Main in South Yorkshire, always carried a 'Dudley' with him to work, as did my own father Job FLAVELL. This 'Dudley' was a round steel/tin container abt. 10 inches diameter and contained drinking water . Now obviously the container was named after the town of Dudley, or was it ? Lord Dudley perhaps ?. Can anyone tell me how this 'Dudley' not only got its name but retained the name in South Yorkshire until fairly recently. Can you help? Email Us Help from 'Yorkie': As a resident of Thurnscoe (Hickleton Colliery Village) I too remember the 'Dudleys', and knowing that there was a larger influx of Staffordshire Miners into this area in the mid to late 1800's I reckon they brought the name with them. Perhaps a Staffordshire miner was seen drinking from a round metal sealed vessel and asked what it was and perhaps the other miner could only make out the word 'dudley' when he was told it was brought from Dudley. Only surmising but having been a Yorkshire Lass listening to a Black Country Grandmother I call well understand how easy it could have been done. Help (?) from Martin at Yampy: There is in fact a place called Dudley (Hill) in Yorkshire - Dennis Flavell informs me that it is on the SE outskirts of Bradford. As it is a mining district the drinking vessel word could have originated from here rather than 'our' Dudley. Or, perhaps the Yorks Dudley gets its name from us anyway? There is another Dudley NE of Newcastle on Tyne, another mining area, does this also derive from Dudley West Midlands, or the Earl of Dudley with his coal industry connections?

Can you help Rob? Question: Where The Paddock now stands, off Clarence Street, Upper Gornal, there stood a very large house which I believe was called 'The Quarries'. It was demolished in approximately 1960. Does anyone know anything of its history? Can you help? Email Us Help from Mike Hammond and Ian Beach: We have created separate pages about The Quarries and The Firs and would welcome further contributions.

Can you help Dave? After reading the article on Ellowes Coach Road, I was wondering if you or your readers would be able to answer a question for me. I live in Gideons Close (situated on the old quarry site), to the left of us is a grave yard. Question: Was there a church to this grave yard and if so, where was it situated? Can you help? Email Us Answer from Cllr. David Stanley: 1. The simple answer to the question about the church is no. 2. The houses in Gideons Close was not part of Harpers Quarry but part of a very extensive garden that belonged to Mr Arthur Barwell. Mr Barwells house was on the top part of the site where the bungalows now stand next to the block of flats in Duke Street Upper Gornal. 3. The Graveyard was part of another large piece of land that was always referred to as Johnsons Garden the entrance being the side of the Crown Inn at Ruiton and the top section previously known as Holloway Square. The houses in the upper part of Holloway Square faced the side of the Crown Inn, the lower part of Holloway Square faced south overlooking the graveyard there were approximately 12 dwelling houses, wash houses and stables with one gas lamp between the upper and lower part of the site. The entrance to the burial ground was from the side of the Manse which was built in the 1970s after most of the other land was sold. Internments in the graveyard on the lower part commenced probably in the 1930s and 40s and has always been part of Ruiton United Reformed Church as it is known today at the time when the graveyard was first used the church was known as Ruiton Congregational Chapel previously known as Ruiton Independent Chapel. And is the oldest non conformist place of worship in the Gornals. I was born at number 4 Holloway Square Upper Gornal and lived there until 1958 and that is how I remember the area before the development took place. Councillor David Stanley. Gornal Ward